Curse

Khyr Lord of Kaoz · Jun 19, 2009, 03:52 PM // 15:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sola Stormbourne

This:

And This:

The game has been out for 4 years and there are a limited number of skills and possible combinations.
I make my own builds, and after wandering over to PvX wikia I've discovered my best working builds for numerous classes are on there, sometimes with a few skills switched around.
Nobody should be calling people names. But when you get better and better at the game, and start putting together builds that work well for the class you have picked, you will find those builds mostly already exist, especially for heavily played classes like warriors. That's not to say other builds won't work, they just will not work as well in most areas.
The real opportunities for innovation with a game this old only comes after skill updates, IMHO.

That's a valid point. I just like to do things myself. Probably a generational thing, I think. It doesn't matter if other people have done it, it matters what I do. As long as I'm enjoying myself creating the builds (which I am), that's what really matters.

Though I really do like it when skills change and I have to change builds, because it gives me an excuse to play with builds that work really well lol.

I used to use Lingering Curse sometimes, in a curse necro build but now that they've raised it to 15e, I'm probably going to look elsewhere.

Miss Puddles · Jun 19, 2009, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

This is nothing new, as it's been going on for years. Remember the old days in PvE when it was assumed that a Mesmer couldn't possibly have a decent skill bar simply because they were a MESMER?

What do you mean "the old days"? Have you played a mesmer recently? You join and half the time you get asked to run a fire nuker.

angelsarc · Jun 19, 2009, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

Asuran scan sucks btw.

No, you suck. Stupid scrub. It lets my EVAs KD.

gremlin · Jun 19, 2009, 04:43 PM // 16:43

A lot of this comes with the assumption that the existing party comprises of excellent players with great builds and you are the unknown who must prove yourself to them.
Fair enough they were there first but if they want something specific that's going to fit in with their team then they must have an idea as to what they need.

So why not ask for it and save everyone's time if you want just an extra team mate then be prepared to take what you get.
If you want a specific class then take them but if you want a particular build then ask for it at least then all the prospective people you get should be capable of running that build.

I have as little time to wast as anyone else and if I am willing to take a chance on you then give me the same courtesy, ask by all means but be polite about it.
For all I know they may have bought the game last week and know less than I.

Funk ee Monk ee · Jun 19, 2009, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keira Nightgale

When you play with people you don't know the least you could do is use a decent build and not use them as your guinea pigs.

^^Quoted for truth^^

Same goes for 'testing' a build in RA. There are places for 1v1 battles, there are guild battle scrimmages, there's over a hundred PVE locations where you can encounter every type of foe and not waste someone else's time.

Yichi · Jun 19, 2009, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Here's the thing with this whole thread.

Build experimentation can be an excellent thing. It is due to build experimentation that we have the builds we do today. I am all for and encourage people to have an idea of what they want to do and how they want to do it. Many very creative people have played this game and came up with some builds that synergize very well together and accomplish everything that is called for in the build. Many of the most popular builds we have today in both PvE and PvP have come from build experimentation because of nerfs/buffs/new ideas/countering heavily used builds.

The fact that if you are wanting to experiment and run your own bars, that's fine. It is on your time and you're free to do whatever the hell you want to on your own time. Sabway, Discordway, etc. have all been discovered by players experimenting with builds on their own time which helped the community and players as a whole.

What you do need to realize is that it was solely their own time, and not the time of others. When you agree to join a pug or guest group, than you should have the courtesy to not experiment and not adjust as you see fit to use others time in a manner that they do not see fit. You are not the only one in that group. If the common consensus of that group is that you run what is considered a "Cookie Cutter" or "Meta" build, than that's what you should have the decency to run.

The "Cookie cutter" or "Meta" builds we have now are there for a reason. Most of the build experimentation has already been done, countless times I might add. The builds we currently have and are accepted as "meta" builds have all been adapted and updated to the most current variant that accomplishes a goal for the team. Taking one piece of the team out and replacing it with a less effective piece only hinders the team and creates unnecessary tension in that team. Just because you want to be unique, or a liar if you are one to ping one build and use another, doesn't mean that you automatically know whats best for the other players involved in the team of people that you are joining. If you want to be unique and run whatever you want, make your own groups or play with friends, but at least have the courtesy to run the bar asked of you if it is whats going to benefit the team the most. By running whatever you want too or joining a team and having absolutely no intention or changing your bar or being flexable to the teams needs, than you are just as selfish as the players who are being rude/arrogant/ignorant that you are complaining about in the first place.

Targren · Jun 19, 2009, 06:02 PM // 18:02

This is why PUGs suck, man. Stay with H/H and enjoy yourself. Let the pugs play the same wiki builds until the servers go dark.

For the record, I'm not crazy about the build concept in the OP, but I did find it intriguing, and definitely +1 for being original.

Kendel · Jun 19, 2009, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Oh man this thread has become epic since i last looked. Seriously Khyr has some brilliant(ly idiotic) posts.

People who actually think the excuse "zomg if everyone gets hold of my build it'll get nerfed so i'm not pinging" is a valid excuse rank below your average Wammo in terms of intelligence. I could quite easily watch what skills your using during the area and find out what this 'epic' build is. But since you don't want to ping i'll go with its because you secretely know your build sucks and i'll kick you.

You do NOT experiment with bizarre builds in HM Pugs. You also then don't get all uppity when someone tells you to change to something he knows works.

If you ping something and i can't see the logic in it, or more importantly, why your taking said skill over something else, and better yet, you can't give me a good reason, you change or leave. I mean seriously, Soldier's Stance? Not only that but your using Watch Yourself AND I Am Unstoppable to make it usable? Give me 1 good reason for wasting your elite and 2 more slots on that instead of using Flail? Something that doesn't involve talking out your arse about 'cookie cutter' skills. Flail is a staple skill on the majority of PvE War builds.

Etc

Khyr Lord of Kaoz · Jun 19, 2009, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kendel

Oh man this thread has become epic since i last looked. Seriously Khyr has some brilliant(ly idiotic) posts.

People who actually think the excuse "zomg if everyone gets hold of my build it'll get nerfed so i'm not pinging" is a valid excuse rank below your average Wammo in terms of intelligence. I could quite easily watch what skills your using during the area and find out what this 'epic' build is. But since you don't want to ping i'll go with its because you secretely know your build sucks and i'll kick you.

You do NOT experiment with bizarre builds in HM Pugs. You also then don't get all uppity when someone tells you to change to something he knows works.

If you ping something and i can't see the logic in it, or more importantly, why your taking said skill over something else, and better yet, you can't give me a good reason, you change or leave. I mean seriously, Soldier's Stance? Not only that but your using Watch Yourself AND I Am Unstoppable to make it usable? Give me 1 good reason for wasting your elite and 2 more slots on that instead of using Flail? Something that doesn't involve talking out your arse about 'cookie cutter' skills. Flail is a staple skill on the majority of PvE War builds.

Etc

I don't need to play with pugs much, though I have, just for the "coughs" experience of doing so. I wanted to see what it was about. It was about a bunch of whiny little kids for the most part.

To be fair, I did pick up a few good pugs along the way. By percentage they were pretty few.

NOWHERE did I say I never pinged a build to a pug. I don't share them on lists, because I choose not to. Apparently that offends people. Obviously, since I had an argument with people about the build I was using (remember that story) I must have pinged a build at some point. I even said I was asked to change skills, if you recall.

The only thing that is idiotic here, is the mudslinging. I won't be returning to the forums because, though there are some nice and intelligent people here, half of you only look to find fault. You're the REASON I don't want to pug and fortunately, I don't NEED to pug.

I don't really mind if you think my posts are idiotic. It's clear you have an opinion, and that's fine.

The fact that you disagree with me, and venture into the personal and the offensive, shows your true caliber.

I won't be posting again. Tata.

Yelling @ Cats · Jun 19, 2009, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khyr Lord of Kaoz

Apparently that offends people.

Again, it doesn't offend people.

It makes you look an arrogant moron.

Aldric · Jun 19, 2009, 11:17 PM // 23:17

I experiment a fair bit aswell but when i PuG i do try to stick to pretty tried and tested variants to builds I know are effective and useful to a party. When you pug you have to consider that you really dont want to waste peoples time by running something random which can result in just another failure pug.

In saying that however , it is better to give people advice about a built and suggest improvements rather than OMFGNUBCAKZORKICK them. People may be very good at certain classes and tryin to learn another and just need that little bit of knowledge to give them a decent insight into the class.

in my case i know I am pretty bad at warrior but i do enjoy playing it so I always take any advice thats offered (i can theorycraft it a shitload better now but still play like i have at least 7 thumbs

)

Also , Ive seen many people claim to be savant genius buildwarsers and then posted an echo mending tank build. Honestly, dont claim something unless you want to post some builds

MithranArkanere · Jun 20, 2009, 03:03 AM // 03:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airstu

Ping a cookie cutter build, run what you want.

That's what I do, and the reason I keep being the last one dying when I have bad luck with pugs... and sometimes the only one not dying.

I experiment when I'm with H/H. And use what works for me when joining PUGS, and ask other people's builds to modify mine depending on what they have and what I expect in the areas we are going to face.

I can't imagine just getting a build from a site or given by a player and using that without any further considerations.

Made In Ascalon · Jun 20, 2009, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funk ee Monk ee

^^Quoted for truth^^

Same goes for 'testing' a build in RA. There are places for 1v1 battles, there are guild battle scrimmages, there's over a hundred PVE locations where you can encounter every type of foe and not waste someone else's time.

I heard RA was serious business confirm/deny?

Buster · Jun 20, 2009, 03:59 AM // 03:59

There is a logic to the builds people use in order to be successful. Ofcourse anyone can just throw skills together and might be successful but that really isn't how Guild Wars was meant to be played.

Yelling @ Cats · Jun 20, 2009, 04:11 AM // 04:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster

There is a logic to the builds people use in order to be successful. Ofcourse anyone can just throw skills together and might be successful but that really isn't how Guild Wars was meant to be played.

Goddamnit, the Mending/Dolyak Signet Warrior is a good build, k?

glacialphoenix · Jun 20, 2009, 04:17 AM // 04:17

People want to clear things quickly without the burden of a bad player or a less efficient player. PUGs don't know if you're good or bad, and the general assumption is that you're not good. Or at least, it's the safe assumption.

Of course, there's a pretty big difference between 'Hey, I don't think that build works for this area, could you change it?' and '...OMG NOOB.' I've generally found that when you ask what other people are running and say you'll try to sync, people are a) more willing to ping; b) more likely to accept your build. Of course, I could just have been lucky.

shinyglove · Jun 20, 2009, 08:52 AM // 08:52

you know, mending do sucks :P

Hanok Odbrook · Jun 21, 2009, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by azlnick

In RPGs it's all about EFFICIENCY and getting as much game time in a short amount of time.

Since when?

For as long as I have played RPG's (starting way back to the good ole pencil and paper days), RPG's have been about crafting your own unique Role-Playing experience and characters. In fact, RPGs Traditionally have been about creating as unique a character as you want.

Being fast and efficient is all about farming and speedclearing - it has nothing to do with the RPG genre.

Hanok Odbrook

Sword Hammer Axe · Jun 21, 2009, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanok Odbrook

Since when?

For as long as I have played RPG's (starting way back to the good ole pencil and paper days), RPG's have been about crafting your own unique Role-Playing experience and characters. In fact, RPGs Traditionally have been about creating as unique a character as you want.

Being fast and efficient is all about farming and speedclearing - it has nothing to do with the RPG genre.

Hanok Odbrook

This!
Bingo!
Thumbs up!
Truly RPG!

Zinger314 · Jun 21, 2009, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword Hammer Axe

This!
Bingo!
Thumbs up!
Truly RPG!

RPG != CORPG (or MMORPG)

With emphasis on the first 2 (or 3) letters.